Guildwars and Warcraft III - Guild Wars Forums

CDiGS · Mar 16, 2005, 07:12 PM // 19:12

For those of you who have played GW and are familar with Warcraft III, how does GW compare with the WCIII BNet ladder (for example, arranged team ladder)? How does GW compare with DotA (WCIII custom map)? I'm under the impression, only from what I've read, is that gameplay in GW is somewhat analogous to a persistent DotA with team/guild support and a ladder (and all the other obvious differences).

I'm not a fan of PvE MMORPG...it just seems that at some point, it becomes totally tedious and repetetive to go up against AI whereas matches against human opponents are always challenging and different.

Some of my buds who love WCIII and DotA are hesitant to get any game that requires level grinding (whereas in WCIII, for example, level is mostly an indicator of skill and a result of winning against other human opponents). I myself find this game interesting (from what I've read), but reading some of the "build" guides which describe actual gameplay, I fail to see how this game really goes beyond other MMORPG to deliver what the developers have described as Team Fortress or Counterstrike like gameplay.

So in short, what will I be doing after I reach level 20? Will there be an AMM like Bnet's that will pit guild against guild? Will there be a concept similar to random team games on WCIII Bnet? I'm excited by the PvP aspects (and of course the graphics and what not) of this game, but turned off by the PvE and leveling aspects.

Loviatar · Mar 16, 2005, 07:19 PM // 19:19

i PVE

but there is the arena for pickup matches

tombs for GVG

and there are 9 maps scheduled for PVP

EDIT

#6
Ellestar
Prominent Citizen

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Russian Federation, Moscow

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1) Arena map (arena)

2) Guild vs Guild map (forest + mountains + guild halls)

Tombs maps
3) 1 vs 1 Deathmatch (gray rock territory) - actually it's a part of a map (5)
4) 1 vs 1 CTF (gray rock territory)
5) 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1 (3 * (1 vs 1)) Deathmatch (and afaik you win if you capture all altars) (gray rock territory)
6) 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1 (3 * (1 vs 1)) Deathmatch (gray rock territory)
7) 1 vs 1 vs 1 King of the Hill (gray rock territory)
8) 1 vs 1 CTF (Hall of Heroes-like territory)
9) 1 vs 1 vs 1 (or maybe 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1?) King of the Hill (Hall of Heroes-like territory)
10a) A map where you wait before entering a Hall of heroes - it's a part of a Hall of heroes map
10) 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1 (2* (1 vs 1) against 1 that holds the hall) Hall of Heroes

So, for now there are 10 PvP maps total if i didn't forgot something. There are 4 types of different textures.
__________________
Russian Guild Wars fansite staff http://www.guildwars.ru/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

nicosharp · Mar 16, 2005, 08:51 PM // 20:51

I love WC3, and still play it, in between beta weekends.

I think the only comparison you can make between them is that both games over very fun exciting strategic competition.

However they differ drastically. Warcraft requires only you to be good, but Guild Wars requires you to be good at another level. Whether it be leading a team of 8 or playing your role in your team as flawless as possible.

There is a lot of strategy involved in the skills to choose, and can be not just on a personal level but a whole team. So you dont just look at your 8 skill chooses but the mix of 64 (8peope*8skills). Then you need to factor in the classes, and the weapon bonuses.

Its like an MMO mixed with Magic The Gathering mixed with Diablo 2 mixed with an RTS. The ranking system for guild vs guild is similiar to a bnet ladder ranking.

ThePaper · Mar 17, 2005, 01:24 AM // 01:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDiGS

So in short, what will I be doing after I reach level 20? Will there be an AMM like Bnet's that will pit guild against guild? Will there be a concept similar to random team games on WCIII Bnet? I'm excited by the PvP aspects (and of course the graphics and what not) of this game, but turned off by the PvE and leveling aspects.

There are 8v8 guild wars, as well as random team PvP or chosen team PvP. There is effectively no grinding, as you can reach level 20 in a matter of days, even without playing most of your free time. Also even if you are level 10 and the other guy is lvl 20, you still have a chance to win, since all levels give you is a few hpp (20 i think?) and some AP to improve your skills. Also you have a total of 150+ skills (75 from each class) to choose 8 from, so you can expect ALOT of variety, and no skill is "uber" (exept elte skills, but you can only have one of those) rand only a few, like ether lord and a few other, are useless. The PVE is all done in instaced areas, with just you and your group. PLUS there is no monthly fee, so if you dont like it (HIGHLY doubtful, i havent met a single person who doesnt like this game

) just stop playing, and come back to it later if you want. There are more chapters that wil come out with more content, but they will add just that, content. They will not make the uyers stronger, just give them more options (like a booster pack in magic).

How THAT for a sales pitch

and I havent even played the game yet!

CrypticApathy · Mar 17, 2005, 05:36 AM // 05:36

how can you compare a RTS to a RPG?

nicosharp · Mar 17, 2005, 07:00 AM // 07:00

Well, RTS stands for Real Time Strategy. By the lose definition, I think it is fitting to say there are similiarities in Guild Wars to that of the mainstream RTS's.

TheRealDecoy · Mar 17, 2005, 08:13 AM // 08:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDiGS

How does GW compare with DotA (WCIII custom map)? I'm under the impression, only from what I've read, is that gameplay in GW is somewhat analogous to a persistent DotA with team/guild support and a ladder (and all the other obvious differences).

As a player of both DotA and GW I don't think your analogy is too far off. The major difference (besides the obvious) is that in DotA your given pre-made characters and a lot of the focus is getting enough gold to buy the high level items. Guild Wars allows you to build your own character using professions that cater to whatever playstyle you enjoy, and while equipment is still important it's not nearly as important as it is in DotA.

As for the max level think about what you do when you hit max level in DotA: You try to beat the bejeezus out of the other team. Besides all the high-level content (not to mention all the high-level content that ANet says they can stream in at any time) there are also a lot of different options you have to beat other max-level players. There will be GvG matching (in fact there already is), and you can also play on random teams in some PvP areas. I'm also kinda turned off by Guild War's PvE, but because of how quickly players can hit max level players don't need to endure too much of it.

Ellestar · Mar 17, 2005, 08:45 AM // 08:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDiGS

For those of you who have played GW and are familar with Warcraft III, how does GW compare with the WCIII BNet ladder (for example, arranged team ladder)? How does GW compare with DotA (WCIII custom map)? I'm under the impression, only from what I've read, is that gameplay in GW is somewhat analogous to a persistent DotA with team/guild support and a ladder (and all the other obvious differences).

I guess that Guild Wars was influenced by Aeon of Strife UMS map for Starcraft. DotA is an improved version of AoS. GW and DotA are quite similar, it's most likely that GW resemble DotA more than any other game.
I didn't played WC3 arranged teams so i can't comment on that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDiGS

Some of my buds who love WCIII and DotA are hesitant to get any game that requires level grinding (whereas in WCIII, for example, level is mostly an indicator of skill and a result of winning against other human opponents). I myself find this game interesting (from what I've read), but reading some of the "build" guides which describe actual gameplay, I fail to see how this game really goes beyond other MMORPG to deliver what the developers have described as Team Fortress or Counterstrike like gameplay.

Your spot in GW guild ladder is the same as a WC3 ladder level. Level of your hero in GW is more like a level of your hero in WC3 match.

I played Guild Wars, DotA, Quake I : Team Fortress and CamperStrike (yes, i don't really like it, mostly because i consider Quake series better

). If you want PvP similar to them, but with a persistent characters, then Guild Wars is your only option. It's closer to a mix of Q1:TF and DotA, CS lacks character/skill diversity.
Can you give a link and describe your concerns about a GW gameplay?

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDiGS

So in short, what will I be doing after I reach level 20? Will there be an AMM like Bnet's that will pit guild against guild?

Guild ladder http://ladder.guildwars.com with the same system as a chess or battle.net ladder. Obviously, it's a big advantage compared to DotA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDiGS

Will there be a concept similar to random team games on WCIII Bnet?

Tombs (arranged team) and Arena (random teams). Tombs is closer to DotA with -AP heroes, Arena is more like -AR heroes. Tombs are more competitive than Arena by far. Also, Tombs currently are more competitive than most GvG matches.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDiGS

I'm excited by the PvP aspects (and of course the graphics and what not) of this game, but turned off by the PvE and leveling aspects.

In DotA you also level your heroes. It's takes less time in DotA, but you do it every game. In GW levelling is fast compared to other MMORPGs and you do it once per hero. So IMHO there is no significant difference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRealDecoy

As a player of both DotA and GW I don't think your analogy is too far off. The major difference (besides the obvious) is that in DotA your given pre-made characters and a lot of the focus is getting enough gold to buy the high level items. Guild Wars allows you to build your own character using professions that cater to whatever playstyle you enjoy, and while equipment is still important it's not nearly as important as it is in DotA.

Acually, in DotA you focus on team pushes (at least up to 5.84b, 6.00 has big changes in that regard so it may be different). You don't have time to farm high-level items if everyone plays the right way.

CDiGS · Mar 18, 2005, 01:55 PM // 13:55

Thanks for all the helpful replies

Mar 16, 2005, 07:12 PM // 19:12	#1
CDiGS Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Mar 2005	Guildwars and Warcraft III For those of you who have played GW and are familar with Warcraft III, how does GW compare with the WCIII BNet ladder (for example, arranged team ladder)? How does GW compare with DotA (WCIII custom map)? I'm under the impression, only from what I've read, is that gameplay in GW is somewhat analogous to a persistent DotA with team/guild support and a ladder (and all the other obvious differences). I'm not a fan of PvE MMORPG...it just seems that at some point, it becomes totally tedious and repetetive to go up against AI whereas matches against human opponents are always challenging and different. Some of my buds who love WCIII and DotA are hesitant to get any game that requires level grinding (whereas in WCIII, for example, level is mostly an indicator of skill and a result of winning against other human opponents). I myself find this game interesting (from what I've read), but reading some of the "build" guides which describe actual gameplay, I fail to see how this game really goes beyond other MMORPG to deliver what the developers have described as Team Fortress or Counterstrike like gameplay. So in short, what will I be doing after I reach level 20? Will there be an AMM like Bnet's that will pit guild against guild? Will there be a concept similar to random team games on WCIII Bnet? I'm excited by the PvP aspects (and of course the graphics and what not) of this game, but turned off by the PvE and leveling aspects.

Mar 16, 2005, 07:19 PM // 19:19	#2
Loviatar Underworld Spelunker Join Date: Feb 2005	i PVE but there is the arena for pickup matches tombs for GVG and there are 9 maps scheduled for PVP EDIT #6 Ellestar Prominent Citizen Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Russian Federation, Moscow -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) Arena map (arena) 2) Guild vs Guild map (forest + mountains + guild halls) Tombs maps 3) 1 vs 1 Deathmatch (gray rock territory) - actually it's a part of a map (5) 4) 1 vs 1 CTF (gray rock territory) 5) 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1 (3 * (1 vs 1)) Deathmatch (and afaik you win if you capture all altars) (gray rock territory) 6) 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1 (3 * (1 vs 1)) Deathmatch (gray rock territory) 7) 1 vs 1 vs 1 King of the Hill (gray rock territory) 8) 1 vs 1 CTF (Hall of Heroes-like territory) 9) 1 vs 1 vs 1 (or maybe 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1?) King of the Hill (Hall of Heroes-like territory) 10a) A map where you wait before entering a Hall of heroes - it's a part of a Hall of heroes map 10) 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1 (2* (1 vs 1) against 1 that holds the hall) Hall of Heroes So, for now there are 10 PvP maps total if i didn't forgot something. There are 4 types of different textures. __________________ Russian Guild Wars fansite staff http://www.guildwars.ru/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mar 16, 2005, 08:51 PM // 20:51	#3
nicosharp Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Mar 2005 Profession: Mo/N	I love WC3, and still play it, in between beta weekends. I think the only comparison you can make between them is that both games over very fun exciting strategic competition. However they differ drastically. Warcraft requires only you to be good, but Guild Wars requires you to be good at another level. Whether it be leading a team of 8 or playing your role in your team as flawless as possible. There is a lot of strategy involved in the skills to choose, and can be not just on a personal level but a whole team. So you dont just look at your 8 skill chooses but the mix of 64 (8peope*8skills). Then you need to factor in the classes, and the weapon bonuses. Its like an MMO mixed with Magic The Gathering mixed with Diablo 2 mixed with an RTS. The ranking system for guild vs guild is similiar to a bnet ladder ranking.

Mar 17, 2005, 05:36 AM // 05:36	#5
CrypticApathy Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Tampa, FL	how can you compare a RTS to a RPG?

Mar 17, 2005, 07:00 AM // 07:00	#6
nicosharp Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Mar 2005 Profession: Mo/N	Well, RTS stands for Real Time Strategy. By the lose definition, I think it is fitting to say there are similiarities in Guild Wars to that of the mainstream RTS's.

Mar 18, 2005, 01:55 PM // 13:55	#9
CDiGS Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Mar 2005	Thanks for all the helpful replies